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And that's what makes this adventure so freakin' beautiful!
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Well it's your opinion...that's all it is.
Actually, aylwardt, it's Chuck Palahniuk's opinion. I'm just sharing because I think it's profound.
I do enjoy his minimalist style but it seems to me that in almost all his books he has one section/chapter where he tries to explore something in the most stomach turning way. Example being Pygmy... Didn't make it past the bathroom rape scene. However some of his other works like Fight Club and Rant were fun reads. Interesting guy.
Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like-a, your opinion, man...
Profound wisdom from the The Dude that Abides.
I like it
Profoundly depressing and hopeless! Why even bother at all?
Ah, see it's only depressing if you choose to see it that way. You could also choose to see that you, me, your neighbor, celebrity X, professional athlete Y, or Fortune 500 CEO Z are all exactly the same. It's what you choose to do with your limited time that defines you. Fortune 500 CEO Z isn't any more "special" or "unique" than you are. We all start out the same way with the same world at our fingertips.
Sure...but to what end? If we're all the same pile of crap moving to a less active pile of crap at some point, why bother pursuing anything more than personal gratification? Hedonism seems to be the most logical course of action.
I see nothing wrong with that. You may also choose a life of philanthropy or service, gaining your personal gratification and pleasure from helping others.
Why even consider the question "to what end?" There is no definite end. We only have the moment. A moment shared equally among us all. How I spend my moments and what I take from them defines my life. I could spend my moments trying to seek out personal pleasure or sit on a couch all day doing nothing.
BTW, can you name something that we can do that isn't intrinsically hedonistic?
It doesn't really matter what you or I THINK, but what your Creator thinks of you.
That's assuming "our creator" has humanistic qualities and "thinks" which would nullify omniscience.
And, conversely, how you view and think of your Creator.
How you view and think of your Creator dictates how you act and behave in life.
Replying in a new thread...
I can appreciate the quote for what it is. In today's society, everyone thinks he's something special and better than everyone else and leads a life of entitlement. Work ethic is lost, because everyone thinks they're special. Nonsense.
I agree with this 100%I think the tone of the quote makes one think of it as pessimistic and dismissive. But if one is able to read between the lines and understand what he's trying to say beyond the face value of the words themselves, it's a rather powerful insight.
As for your reply to the previous thread, I don't think a belief in a "creator" predisposes a person to think and act in a particular way. There are people who don't believe in any sort of creator at all, but that doesn't necessarily make them act a certain way that's different that someone who believes in the flying spaghetti monster. We act according to social conventions within which we reside.
But, when one doesn't believe in a Creator or Higher Power, it frees them from responsibility for their lives. They don't have to answer to said Creator, if they just simply don't believe in Him. A lack of a Higher Being results in no accountability.
That is simply not true. We have social conventions, which have evolved and been passed down for hundreds of thousands of years that allow us to not only survive but to thrive in groups and communities. Being kind, respecting your neighbor, etc. weren't ideas that just one day popped into our heads via some "god". Asserting that we are only good people for fear of the wrath of god is not really giving yourself or anyone much credit at all. Someone who doesn't believe in a higher power, I would argue, takes on more responsibility. Their life is in their hands. The person who does believe in a higher power, one that "has a plan for their life", has shoved off all their responsibility to an imagined entity, passing it off anything that happens to them as "god's will".
We humbly ask You to continue rescuing the lost from the domain of darkness and bring them into the kingdom of Your Son. You alone can draw and enable them. You alone can send Your Holy Spirit with power to convict them of the sin in their life and their need to repent and believe in Your truth. The truth that Jesus is the only way to You, that He alone is the way, the truth and the life.
Father, we ask you to forgive the sins of the lost. We come in Jesus’ name to demolish the strongholds in their minds that those sins have allowed. We come in the authority of Jesus’ name to overcome the power of the enemy in their lives, to ask You to bind evil spirits away from them in the name of Jesus and the blood of the Lamb through the word of our testimony.
We come against the blinding of their minds and ask that You send someone to open their eyes and turn them from darkness to light. Father please help us to be willing and active believers. Please do not let their hearts be hardened, but instead open their hearts to receive Your truth. Rip away any veil that covers their hearts, any false teaching that confuses their minds. Help them to hear your Word with power and conviction as the Word of God and not the word of man. Give them understanding, so that the enemy will not be able to steal Your Word from their hearts.
Father, help them see their need for a Savior, to know they must confess their sins, repent, believe and live a fruitful life. Help them choose Your mercy and Your gift of grace, to believe with their hearts and confess with their mouths, Jesus is Lord. We ask in Your will, that not any should perish. In Jesus’ precious name. Amen.
What I find most interesting about this is that you seem to think you have it right. Your way is the way to the light and all others are in darkness. When, what I see, is the darkness created by the closed mind of the modern christian bible-thumpers keeping them from seeing the light. It's rather egotistical to believe that YOUR way is the only way.
With due respect, aren't you just as convinced that you have it right?
Negative. I don't claim to know THE answer. I find pleasure in exploring all possible alternatives for why the universe exists.
That isn't necessarily the way it comes across. However I do commend you for searching for your answers.
If you find pleasure in exploring all possible alternatives then why are you so quick to say he is wrong and if you are not saying he is wrong then what is wrong with him being confident in what he believes is right?
Never said he was wrong. I do find it comedic when people put all their faith in the bible and use it as a way to legitimize their beliefs. I've been of that belief system for most of my life and can therefore have an opinion about it. My point is that we don't know "the ultimate truth" and we quite possibly never will. Not until we are dead and gone, at least. But we do have the ability to think rationally and use reason according to observation and personal experience. If reading a few bible verses is enough for a person to believe whole-heartedly and throw in their lot with the god of the bible, that's there prerogative. I on the other hand, choose to hold myself to a higher standard of reason and logic and recognize that there are many other possibilities and explanations for the spiritual realm which are just as legitimate, if not more so, than those recorded in the bible.
So, what sources have you found that provide more truth/spiritual ex libations than the bible? Would you care to elaborate on your previous post with something more concrete...
"explanations" sorry. Stoopid iFone autocorrect.
replied in new thread.
I commend you, sir.
Master Yoda disagrees with you. “Size matters not. Look at me. Judge me by my size, do you? Hmm? Hmm. And well you should not. For my ally is the Force, and a powerful ally it is. Life creates it, makes it grow. Its energy surrounds us and binds us. Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter. You must feel the Force around you; here, between you, me, the tree, the rock, everywhere, yes. Even between the land and the ship.”- Yoda
Anything other than hedonism seems logically inconsistent. From a Darwinian standpoint philanthropy seems to be the mark of a weaker organism. One less likely to survive and therefore continue it's genetic code into future generations. To answer the other question. I would say that any action that puts the well being of others ahead of your own well being isn't hedonistic, but is philanthropic. For example, jumping on a grenade to save your buddies. There is nothing in that for the jumper. He doesn't even gain the gratification of a heroic act, just a quick death.
@Chet_Manly:PanchatantraThe VedasUpanishadsSutrasTao Te ChingThe Way of Zen
These are just a few of the texts I've come into contact with. I'll admit I haven't "studied" them but they opened up my mind to alternative beliefs and traditions that far out-date the bible and Christianity. For me, I'm not convinced by the bible's hypocrisies and inconsistencies to warrant giving it any credence other than as a book of fables meant to propagate an ancient moral code.
Ok. I am not aware of some of these. I wouldne be so quick to dismiss the bible though. There are cultural differences that can complicate things. I see any text of considerable age to have this problem and try to approach the subject with this in mind....but it is better to be watching for God/Truth than not care at all. Interesting the direction some of these mint conversations can take.
Lol indeed. Being of a sound enough mind to be able to take in information with a grain of salt (as they say) is crucial, especially in this age of unlimited access to information. I think what that does is give us a unique opportunity to evolve our spirituality as individuals and as a collection of societies. If you were born 2,000 years ago you would have no option as to what religious beliefs you had. You were born and raised to believe the things your social circle believed and passed down to you. Now we have unparalleled access to information surrounding every topic and religion. But it requires our critical thinking skills to be that much more on point.
I think you confuse Christ/God with Christians. I don't think the intent of this initial post was to rabbit trail down this path this far, but I too have exposed myself to many other teachings and have found Truth and reliability in the Bible not found anywhere else. No other document has been more historically proven while replicated through as many generations, cultures, or languages with the same level of accuracy. To completely dismiss it is foolish and closed minded (not saying you have or are). Truth is not relative; by its very nature it is consistent and constant. The Bible is not something that should be picked through like a buffet line. If any Truth can be found in the Bible, then it must all be Truth because it is so interdependent upon itself. I'm busted, fallen, hypocritical, human and a poor example of Christ. I think one of the worst things about being a Christian is knowing I'll never live up to the expectations of God, the only solace is he has glory in my efforts.
I find most peoples hang up beyond Christian behavior boils down to a control issue; it is human nature to deny the superiority of anything to us. In an effort to avoid this people look to science, technology, and knowledge in general to avoid looking at the face of God. Ultimately if we look to these long enough we are directed right back to God. For example The Laws of Thermodynamics to simplify supports creation, nothing is perpetual and nothing can come from nothing. Ultimately if there is a beginning to everything from nothing then there must have been a supernatural force that started it outside the laws of the physical. Like someone else stated when you go the route of moral relativist as an escape, everything being for personal gratification you cannot account for self-sacrifice and at the very least its lack of evolutionary advantage. You, yourself stated “I choose to hold myself to a higher standard of reason and logic” where does this concept of a higher standard come from? What set the bar for the higher standard, if all things are equal?
“There are people who don't believe in any sort of creator at all, but that doesn't necessarily make them act a certain way that's different that someone who believes in the flying spaghetti monster.” – Just because you have nothing to do with him doesn't mean he has nothing to do with you.
I don’t disagree with the quote, but I agree for different reasons. I agree because it describes me without the influence and spirit of my creator. Despite all my previous effort to abandon him and exile myself from his influence he has never abandoned my side, nor by his very nature can he. In the presence of this knowledge into his nature, this quote is hardly profound.
“A man can no more diminish God's glory by refusing to worship Him than a lunatic can put out the sun by scribbling the word 'darkness' on the walls of his cell.” ― C.S. Lewis, The Problem of Pain
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